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nahin123
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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby nahin123 » Sep 16. 2012, 17:31

So I'm following this meal plan currently. Any suggestions are welcome


8:00 am - 2 whole eggs and 2 egg whites + 3 pieces of bread

11:00 am - coffee break..half cup milk and half water with one teaspoon sugar

1:30 pm - 1 1/2 cup brown rice with lentils, a whole chicken breast, veggies

6:00 pm - same coffee break

7pm - gym

8:30-9pm - Syntha 6 shake 2 scoops + glutamine

12 pm - same meal as lunch..but 1 cup rice this time

Ps: I work from 9-6..have a break from 1-2pm. Another thing, should I have a scoop syntha 6 with my breakfast? I know syntha 6 is not a great PWO drink but I just joined work and will be properly investing on supps from next month. Also I have fish oils which I'm thinking of taking in the morning. And, is glutamine enough for preventing muscle catabolism since I'm an ectomorph and the whole idea of aminos doesn't attract me.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Sep 16. 2012, 20:48

nahin123 wrote:So I'm following this meal plan currently. Any suggestions are welcome


8:00 am - 2 whole eggs and 2 egg whites + 3 pieces of bread

11:00 am - coffee break..half cup milk and half water with one teaspoon sugar

1:30 pm - 1 1/2 cup brown rice with lentils, a whole chicken breast, veggies

6:00 pm - same coffee break

7pm - gym

8:30-9pm - Syntha 6 shake 2 scoops + glutamine

12 pm - same meal as lunch..but 1 cup rice this time

Ps: I work from 9-6..have a break from 1-2pm. Another thing, should I have a scoop syntha 6 with my breakfast? I know syntha 6 is not a great PWO drink but I just joined work and will be properly investing on supps from next month. Also I have fish oils which I'm thinking of taking in the morning. And, is glutamine enough for preventing muscle catabolism since I'm an ectomorph and the whole idea of aminos doesn't attract me.


Some thoughts:

- Your diet is fine, but I'd recommend more variety, some fruit as well.

- Instead of diet, list your macros! Because that would tell us more useful stuff. For example: I have a feeling your fat intake is way too low. List your stats (weight) and macros (grams fat, protein and carbs you eat daily, or at least ballpark) Aim for 0.4g/lb fat minimum. And some people feel even better with more.

- Timing or frequency of the meals is not that important.

- Syntha 6 is an expensive powder, there are more natural cheaper products out there.

- It doesn't matter what you eat or drink after you train unless you trained fasted in which case a mild mostly symbolic and theoretical case can be made for replenishing your body ASAP to stop potential muscle loss. But for well fed people, after you trained you still have aminos in your blood from the meals you ate earlier in the day.
The only other scenario where you better eat (or even drink for even faster absorption) some calories especially from protein and carbs right after training is if you got another session or event to perform later on that same day.
Thus the protein supplements that claim quicker action and are thus promoted as ideal post-workout shakes are nothing more than scams. I can go into that more if anyone is interested, but generally don't worry about it. Speed of protein absorption is nearly completely irrelevant.

- Glutamine is not something I would spend money on. While of some use for hospital patients, research is just not enough to support it's use for athletes who already eat a high protein diet, and anecdotal evidence failed to show benefits. In other words there are no people who came forth claiming they clearly feel a huge difference or have documented improvements in their training with glutamine VS without glutamine.
Save your glutamine for when you feel a cold coming, because anecdotally taking it with Vitamin C tends to stop the cold for many people.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11822473?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834123?dopt=Abstract

Out of 3 top sports nutrition and exercise researchers and successful top trainers out there that I have searched, all 3 recommend NOT to spend money on Glutamine.

- Fish oil is great for anyone who doesn't eat fatty fish several times per week. But remember, take 9 capsules or so (not all at once is best). I LOL when people take 1 per day and think they are taking fish oil... But I guess it's better than nothing.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby Kazparov » Oct 16. 2012, 20:25

Kusok, what are your views on grass fed beef? Also what about other meats (pork,chicken, lamb, beef) raised without antibiotics, animal by products and/or growth hormones?
"If I wanted to kill myself I'd climb to the top of your ignorance and jump down to your iq. When stupid goes up to 5 dollars a barrel I'd love to have the drilling rights to your head"
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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Oct 17. 2012, 00:51

Kazparov wrote:Kusok, what are your views on grass fed beef? Also what about other meats (pork,chicken, lamb, beef) raised without antibiotics, animal by products and/or growth hormones?



Generally I'm all for it. Treatment of animals, possible long term health effects of GMOs or pesticides and so on, supporting local small farmers, making as natural as possible nutritional choices for myself, all those things are important to me.

Of course cost can be a problem.

And many people take it too far, speculating about small details such as Omega fat ratios and eating only organic and so on. Organic is one thing I would advice to be skeptical on. Yes, I still generally would choose organic if price is no problem, but don't be religious about it, most of the claims regarding organic are actually BS:

http://www.maxcondition.com/page.php?148

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby eunuch » Oct 17. 2012, 01:10

I couldn't help but repeat a big

THANK YOU

you saved me years of making mistakes/learning the hard way/being completely lost like a fool in the dark woods of sports nutrition.

*edit- I thought of a question.

Will gluten really destroy my insides and give me cancer? Should I go "paleo" like the internet keeps telling me to?
And then he says, “Cause my life is dope, and I do dope shit,” and then he hung up the phone.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Oct 17. 2012, 20:24

eunuch wrote:I couldn't help but repeat a big

THANK YOU

you saved me years of making mistakes/learning the hard way/being completely lost like a fool in the dark woods of sports nutrition.

*edit- I thought of a question.

Will gluten really destroy my insides and give me cancer? Should I go "paleo" like the internet keeps telling me to?



Hey, you're welcome, anytime, don't thank me, i suck :lol:

Damn, the questions are getting hard... haha. I will write you up a paragraph of useful tips on gluten later tonight. Gotta run now.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Oct 18. 2012, 14:01

eunuch wrote:I couldn't help but repeat a big

THANK YOU

you saved me years of making mistakes/learning the hard way/being completely lost like a fool in the dark woods of sports nutrition.

*edit- I thought of a question.

Will gluten really destroy my insides and give me cancer? Should I go "paleo" like the internet keeps telling me to?



ok, here is how you should think of gluten to make your life easier:

The easy old-fashioned approach is this:
If you have a problem with gluten: self-diagnosed diarrhea, gas, bloating, cramping, that all go away when you stop eating grains, or if a doctor diagnoses you with it, stop eating it! You can still eat some grains by the way:

http://www.wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/gluten-free-whole-grains


Easy.


Now, if this interests you, and if you want to get deeper into it, the topic of gluten starts to get tricky and eventually really tricky:
Many people get too crazy over this, and self-diagnose themselves when in reality they may not have a problem with gluten at all. It is often said that 1 out of 100 people has this problem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/14/us-celiac-disease-idUSBRE87D0ZY20120814

If you have kids watch for the above symptoms or if they stop growing! That is a sure and by now a well-known sign.
Notice that groups of people that live longest and have less disease actually eat grains a lot:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/118/3/214.long

So, it's not the devil it is made out to be, or is it... now it seems some people have some sensitivity to gluten even if they have no celiac disease, and another thing to consider is that tests to diagnose this are not always reliable or definitive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

So, are the Paleo people onto something? Maybe! But if you don't seem to have any problems mentioned at the beginning of this post, and excluding grains or some grains would make your life miserable, why bother excluding them?

Final word is that many people who experienced improvements in their mood and physical condition when they said no to gluten is actually due to the fact that they began eating better and cut out processed crap etc. But there is no doubt that there are also people who really do have some problem with gluten or even grains in general, and if they feel better on paleo, great!

Personally, I don't do well on grains, rice seems somewhat ok thou. And since gluten intolerance often goes together with lactose intolerance I also notice this on myself: one glass of milk every other day or so is the most I can handle. If I drink milk everyday I start having stomach problems. But I know some other people who digest milk in any amounts like champs! Cheese and yogurt are a no-no with me, I love the taste to death, but all I do is fart and feel tired etc. And it's really obvious. Oh well, there are plenty of other foods to enjoy. But don't avoid anything unless you're sure you got a problem with it.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby Kazparov » Oct 18. 2012, 22:27

Not to make your job even MORE difficult Kusok, but on the topic of gluten and wheat: What can you dig up about Gliadin ? I have read some articles that the modern wheat plant has subtly different and more harmful version of this glycoprotein than what was found in the wheat that was developed prior to the Green Revolution in the 60's and 70's. I recall this one article off the top of my head http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.8 . Seems a bit sensationalist, but I know many people how consider wheat and gluten to be the Devil incarnate.

You seem to have a good knowledge base for interpreting NBCI science papers, I found this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257593/ but I'm a butcher not a scientist.

Any relevant information you can share with us will continue to exponentially increase your awesomeness. :D
"If I wanted to kill myself I'd climb to the top of your ignorance and jump down to your iq. When stupid goes up to 5 dollars a barrel I'd love to have the drilling rights to your head"
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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Oct 20. 2012, 17:20

Kazparov wrote:Not to make your job even MORE difficult Kusok, but on the topic of gluten and wheat: What can you dig up about Gliadin ? I have read some articles that the modern wheat plant has subtly different and more harmful version of this glycoprotein than what was found in the wheat that was developed prior to the Green Revolution in the 60's and 70's. I recall this one article off the top of my head http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.8 . Seems a bit sensationalist, but I know many people how consider wheat and gluten to be the Devil incarnate.

You seem to have a good knowledge base for interpreting NBCI science papers, I found this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257593/ but I'm a butcher not a scientist.

Any relevant information you can share with us will continue to exponentially increase your awesomeness. :D


Well yeah, your pubmed link basically advises sick people to avoid the food that gives them this problem. This is the whole point: 99% of people are ok with grains, 1% isn't, but people like Dr. William Davis, author of the article in your first link, would fear-monger and scare the 99% to also avoid the foods that his patients (1%) have a problem with... Basically the small minority goes apeshit and makes it sound like EVERYONE has the same problem they are having.

Here is another one that scares people shitless:

http://gut.bmj.com/content/56/6/889.extract

(Cliffs: 90% of people show negative immune response to Gliadin)

But wait a minute! They tested like 6 subjects, and didn't give them food, but rather a solution, which is totally different, AND negative immune response is not same as real negative effect, the immune response they are talking about is most often irrelevant.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby eunuch » Oct 21. 2012, 15:50

kusok wrote:
eunuch wrote:I couldn't help but repeat a big

THANK YOU

you saved me years of making mistakes/learning the hard way/being completely lost like a fool in the dark woods of sports nutrition.

*edit- I thought of a question.

Will gluten really destroy my insides and give me cancer? Should I go "paleo" like the internet keeps telling me to?



ok, here is how you should think of gluten to make your life easier:

The easy old-fashioned approach is this:
If you have a problem with gluten: self-diagnosed diarrhea, gas, bloating, cramping, that all go away when you stop eating grains, or if a doctor diagnoses you with it, stop eating it! You can still eat some grains by the way:

http://www.wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/gluten-free-whole-grains


Easy.


Now, if this interests you, and if you want to get deeper into it, the topic of gluten starts to get tricky and eventually really tricky:
Many people get too crazy over this, and self-diagnose themselves when in reality they may not have a problem with gluten at all. It is often said that 1 out of 100 people has this problem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/14/us-celiac-disease-idUSBRE87D0ZY20120814

If you have kids watch for the above symptoms or if they stop growing! That is a sure and by now a well-known sign.
Notice that groups of people that live longest and have less disease actually eat grains a lot:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/118/3/214.long

So, it's not the devil it is made out to be, or is it... now it seems some people have some sensitivity to gluten even if they have no celiac disease, and another thing to consider is that tests to diagnose this are not always reliable or definitive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

So, are the Paleo people onto something? Maybe! But if you don't seem to have any problems mentioned at the beginning of this post, and excluding grains or some grains would make your life miserable, why bother excluding them?

Final word is that many people who experienced improvements in their mood and physical condition when they said no to gluten is actually due to the fact that they began eating better and cut out processed crap etc. But there is no doubt that there are also people who really do have some problem with gluten or even grains in general, and if they feel better on paleo, great!

Personally, I don't do well on grains, rice seems somewhat ok thou. And since gluten intolerance often goes together with lactose intolerance I also notice this on myself: one glass of milk every other day or so is the most I can handle. If I drink milk everyday I start having stomach problems. But I know some other people who digest milk in any amounts like champs! Cheese and yogurt are a no-no with me, I love the taste to death, but all I do is fart and feel tired etc. And it's really obvious. Oh well, there are plenty of other foods to enjoy. But don't avoid anything unless you're sure you got a problem with it.

Thanks again master kusok! A quick one, why did somebody tell me to get .8 g of protein per KILOGRAM of bodyweight?
I feel great at 1-1.5g per POUND. Besides whey farts(I need better quality product :C) my body seems to enjoy it as well.
And then he says, “Cause my life is dope, and I do dope shit,” and then he hung up the phone.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby kusok » Oct 21. 2012, 20:59

eunuch wrote:why did somebody tell me to get .8 g of protein per KILOGRAM of bodyweight?
I feel great at 1-1.5g per POUND. Besides whey farts(I need better quality product :C) my body seems to enjoy it as well.



You will often run into people who will say protein is not needed at all, or is bad for you, and so on. But both research and field observations of entire generations of athletes show that athletes do best with ~1 g/lb or even more in some cases. And even in sedentary individuals 1.2 g/kg is what research apparently points to as a minimum recommended protein intake. (I heard of such research from legit sources, too lazy to actually google links :D
RDA is a joke, just ignore it.

But it simply sounds to me like the person misspoke or might have heard wrong or remembered wrong some recommendation. May have confused kilos with pounds.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby Kazparov » Oct 29. 2012, 19:33

What about ZMA? Seems to be the hot thing these days?
"If I wanted to kill myself I'd climb to the top of your ignorance and jump down to your iq. When stupid goes up to 5 dollars a barrel I'd love to have the drilling rights to your head"
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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby lasni » Oct 30. 2012, 15:48

Kazparov wrote:What about ZMA? Seems to be the hot thing these days?

ZMA is bullshit. I'll let Kusok elaborate if he wants to.

Actually, I'm an idiot. I was thinking Tribulus. Zinc and Magnesium are good, especially the latter given that you're not ingesting enough of it with your meals.

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Re: All you need to know about nutrition.

Postby eunuch » Nov 1. 2012, 14:02

http://articles.elitefts.com/nutrition/ ... a-calorie/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-lo ... ation.html

Does Kusok agree with these? They are saying not all calories are equal etc.
And then he says, “Cause my life is dope, and I do dope shit,” and then he hung up the phone.


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